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New Samurai tournament
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MaBi
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 01, 2006
Posts: 490
Location: Italy

PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:52 am    Post subject: New Samurai tournament Reply with quote

After a few months from the last one, Schuyler is organizing a new Samurai tournament, and this time it will be 2-player only.
Those interested to participate can contact Schuyler sending him a PM here on MaBiWeb.
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Schuyler



Joined: Aug 21, 2006
Posts: 54
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 5:29 am    Post subject: Tournament Format Reply with quote

Greetings, warriors, and welcome to Samurai Tournament II: Duels of Death! Smile

**CHECK YOUR PRIVATE MESSAGES!**

This time around, the tournament will be all two player games, and to offset first player advantage, opening hands will be random. We will not be using the new Ship-2 variant, although it may be included in future competition.

The tournament format will be as follows:
Like the first time, this is a double elimination tournament, meaning that if you lose a game, you still have a chance to win the overall tournament. Once you lose a second game, however, you are out of the tournament. Sharing a win means you advance.

All games will have standard, visible scoring, with random starting hands.

Mechanics will be as follows:
I will set up all games and email players passwords for their individual games. (Who plays whom in the first round will be determined by the order in which I receive initial Private Messages expressing interest in the tournament.)

In the meantime, be sure to set your account preferences so that you are notified by email when you receive private messages. To do that, click on Your Account under Site Selections on the left side of the screen. Then click on Your Info. And then at Notify on new Private Message by Email:, choose Yes. And last, click on Save Changes at the bottom of the screen. This is very important as I will be sending you all of your tournament game assignments and passwords by Private Message. So you must check your Private Messages!

Once a game is finished, the winner is to send me a Private Message stating that his game is finished, and that he is the winner. Within 24 hours, I will have the next games set up for those who advance.

Please take your turn at least once per day, if possible. If a player ever takes more than four days to play, then the opposing player may opt to have that particular game cancelled, be rebracketed with a different player, and have the slow player receive a loss. Consequently, be sure to let your opponent know if you will not be able to play for more than three days! In any game, if a player takes more than seven days to play, then the slow player will automatically receive a loss, and the opposing player will be rebracketed. Unlike the first tournament, rebracketed players will not automatically receive a win, but will simply start a new game to replace the game that was cancelled.

Sign-up for the tournament will close on May 12. And all first round games will be set up by May 13.

Standings:
I shall keep posted in this forum standings throughout the tournament, to be updated upon the completion of each game for a particular round. Games will be clearly named so that players can keep an eye on the competition through the Running Games page.

If there are any questions, please respond to this post or send me a Private Message.

There are no prizes, with the exception of bragging rights!

Good luck to all, and may the best Samurai win. And remember:

**CHECK YOUR PRIVATE MESSAGES!**

Schuyler
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Schuyler



Joined: Aug 21, 2006
Posts: 54
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 1:45 am    Post subject: Round 1 Bracketing Reply with quote

Greetings Samurai players! The tournament has begun! Very Happy

**CHECK YOUR PRIVATE MESSAGES!**

The first round games have been bracketed as follows: (Note: Every game throughout the tournament will be named using the following format: Round #, Game x.)

Round 1, Game A: Schuyler, Youps
Round 1, Game B: Ciaci, pikeman
Round 1, Game C: mullen1099, gRom
Round 1, Game D: SlothNinja, stickyii
Round 1, Game E: Lacxox, Aizkolari
Round 1, Game F: coadjutor, godsigma
Round 1, Game G: u0280326, yosoyelkoch
Round 1, Game H: Randast, duncan
Round 1, Game I: mbragg, darkchem
Round 1, Game J: apple_sauced, Wesm
Round 1, Game K: xaviercool, thekid
Round 1, Game L: jan, cmshinkle
Round 1, Game M: westptr, sandemonium
Round 1, Game N: willythesnitch, wanderer
Round 1, Game O: Arjuna, SinoCenturion
Round 1, Game P: Websteria, eh_drian
Round 1, Game Q: bop517, guardtroll
Round 1, Game R: agentzen, Hawzy
Round 1, Game S: MattE, Kaptan
Round 1, Game T: justscott, mestertolvaj
Round 1, Game U: toutoune2, gamerdave
Round 1, Game V: foowizard, mechvigiak
Round 1, Game W: jomblo69, bzar

Within 24 hours, I will set up each game, and send, via Private Message, the password for that particular game to both players. SO CHECK YOUR PRIVATE MESSAGES! Upon receiving your Round 1 password, click Join a game under Game Manager, find your game under Closed (password required) waiting games, click on Join, enter your password, and click Join game. Once both players in your game have joined, be sure to do your best to move at least once per day if possible. And if you win, don't forget to private message me the result!

Good luck to all. Let the battle commence!
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Lacxox



Joined: Mar 21, 2008
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So now the games have been set, we're only waiting for the passwords Smile Let the tournament begin!
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Schuyler



Joined: Aug 21, 2006
Posts: 54
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 4:09 pm    Post subject: Round 1 Update Reply with quote

The following is a Round 1 update.

**CHECK YOUR PRIVATE MESSAGES!**

pusher18 and tibelix have entered the tournament since the first games were posted on May 13. They hereby are bracketed into: Round 1, Game X.

Since the first round is just getting started, it's not too late to join if you haven't already done so! Simply send me a Private Message if you would like to participate.

Good luck, warriors!

**CHECK YOUR PRIVATE MESSAGES!**

Schuyler
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thekid



Joined: Apr 05, 2006
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

First, I must say, excellent organization.

I do have a question:

What happens if there is an odd number of people in a particular round?

Take for example the winners bracket, if there are no ties we go from 24 to 12 to 6 then 3. And if there are ties there could be an odd number right away in the second round.

Ideas, suggestions?
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Schuyler



Joined: Aug 21, 2006
Posts: 54
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

**CHECK YOUR PRIVATE MESSAGES!**

Thanks for the question. Chances are, some people will get dropped from the tournament for not playing quickly enough or for not playing at all. This happens mainly from not checking Private Messages. So check your Private Messages!

Since the number of people in the tournament is likely to change, a solution to having an odd number of players will be determined if and when such a situation becomes an issue.

Schuyler
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duncan



Joined: Jun 19, 2007
Posts: 13
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2008 4:23 pm    Post subject: faster play, fast elimination? Reply with quote

Hello. I just have a question.

I'm afraid that this tournament has the same problem as last one. that is, playing fast means you're likey to die earlier.

As far as i understood, the winner of a certain game play against the random player - which is any player available at the moment - at the next round, instead of playing against the winner of adjacent game.

So playing slow enough until skillful players are eliminated for two loses can be considered as a strategy? Or do you have any solution to control each player' number of games to play?

If player A (w. 7 win - 0 lose) and Player B (w. 1 win - 1 lose) fight at the final and Player B wins, Player B deserve the crown?

This is a problem. If I misunderstood the tournament rule, I'm so sorry.
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Schuyler



Joined: Aug 21, 2006
Posts: 54
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2008 8:41 pm    Post subject: Tournament Mechanics and Bracketing Reply with quote

Hello Warriors!

**CHECK YOUR PRIVATE MESSAGES!**

This posting is in response to questions raised by the kid and duncan pertaining to bracketing.

Unlike the first tournament, this time we have a "winners bracket" and a "losers bracket." This means that players with perfect records will only play others with perfect records in the winners bracket for as long as possible. Once someone has a loss, he moves to the losers bracket and will only play people with the same record for as long as possible.

If someone is rebracketed because his opponent is too slow, then he will be done so with another opponent with the same record, or at most a one game difference. If someone simply plays slowly, then that will delay future games, but he will not gain an advantage since everyone will be playing others with comparable records, regardless of whether they play slowly or quickly.

Playing in this manner, there will not be any great disparities in records whenever any one person plays any other person.
With 48 players, however, there will eventually be three players remaining with 4-0 records, and 12 players with 3-1 records. At this time, one player will receive a "bye." THE PROCEDURE FOR DETERMINING BYES WILL BE AS FOLLOWS:
1. The one who has defeated the most players who are still in the tournament will receive the bye.
2. If their is a tie, then of the tied players the one who has won the most games as blue will receive a bye.
3. If there is still a tie, then there will be a three game "play-off" with the three perfect players, and the same tie-breaker rules will apply for those who were initially tied.
4. If there is still a tie, then the one receiving the bye will be chosen randomly.
5. In the next round, the player who is 5-0 will receive a bye. And future byes will be determined in a similar fashion...

To summarize, no one player will ever get a "free" win or more than one bye, and no one player will ever play another player with more than a one game discrepancy in number of wins.

Please ask if there any further questions, And remember:

**CHECK YOUR PRIVATE MESSAGES!**

Schuyler
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duncan



Joined: Jun 19, 2007
Posts: 13
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 3:35 am    Post subject: Re: Tournament Mechanics and Bracketing Reply with quote

Schuyler:

Hello. is there any detailed posting about bracket system?

Schuyler wrote:

Once someone has a loss, he moves to the losers bracket and will only play people with the same record for as long as possible.


AS LONG AS POSSIBLE. good. but unless it's possible? despite bracket system I think there can be players lagging behind with or without intention. Can't there be a lagging player whom you can never get a proper opponent for, because all other players in the same bracket are eliminated or have too good record for him?

Schuyler wrote:

With 48 players, however, there will eventually be three players remaining with 4-0 records, and 12 players with 3-1 records.


What if there is a player with 1-0 record at above point by playing very very slow? is he eliminated automatically? or get a free ticket to get randomly chosen as a bye receiver? if he is to be eliminated just because his number of games is smaller than other players, is that fair? Say he didn't intend slow play and the pace was still legal. (a turn in three days)

If a lagging player advances to the final because proper match-making is not possible with small number of survivors, and win the championship with ONE LUCKY GAME, this tournament is pointless and waste of time. It's a huge insult to foregone samurais who faced the death & died gracefully.

If you say you have thoroughly simulated the bracket system about every cases, Or you guarantee that the system has no problem about it's fairness, I'll just leave it to you as I'm not a math person Smile. It's worth to think about though.

I think I'll play slowly with eyes on the match-making of others for the time being. I hope you don't get I'm fastidious. I could have been the biggest victim of FREE SURVIVORS at the last tournament. All I want is a fair tournament.

I'm sorry that I keep raising questions. Basically Thank you so much for your effort in organizing this event. Smile
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willythesnitch



Joined: Sep 11, 2006
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 10:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Tournament Mechanics and Bracketing Reply with quote

duncan wrote:


I think I'll play slowly with eyes on the match-making of others for the time being. I hope you don't get I'm fastidious. I could have been the biggest victim of FREE SURVIVORS at the last tournament. All I want is a fair tournament.



Are you saying that you are going to INTENTIONALLY play slowly? You are going to go out of your way to slow down the entire process so as to ensure that you play fewer games?

Are you aware that this is not on Olympic event, nor is it a paying tournament? Aren't we supposed to be playing to have fun and see who happens to win? Why not just play at the same speed that you normally would and see how it turns out?
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Musashi



Joined: Feb 28, 2008
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 2:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

willythesnitch:

Yes. I mean that I'm going to play slowly INTENTIONALLY. But it's to raise a question on this procedure rather than to advance without hardship. If this procedure works fine, I do no harm to other players at all. do I?

Yes we are all here to enjoy this game and have fun! But without fair system do you really think it's possible? I'm not declaring that current tournament rule is unfair at this point (Plz don't feel uncomfortable Schuyler) but IF the tournament rule is not fair why do we bother to organize this event rather than just to keep playing open games? Do we even have meaning to compete, decide advances, rank, and champion?

I feel very sorry that you took my plan in that way. Hope you understand.

P.S: I see you're at amazing pace at the tournament. Keep it up!
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Schuyler



Joined: Aug 21, 2006
Posts: 54
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 6:56 am    Post subject: Tournament Bracketing Reply with quote

**CHECK YOUR PRIVATE MESSAGES!**

Since my postings seem to be confusing people, I'm going to keep this one short. (All of the following already can be found in my postings of May 1 and May 18.)

1. The way this tournament is being bracketed, along with the rules for byes, no participant will ever play another participant where there is more than a one game discrepancy in records.

2. Consequently, the only advantage to playing slowly is to be able to observe how other games develop before one advances.

3. Playing slowly does harm other players in that it slows down the entire tournament.

Schuyler

**CHECK YOUR PRIVATE MESSAGES!**
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duncan



Joined: Jun 19, 2007
Posts: 13
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Schuyler:

Thanks for the quick answer.

I still don't understand how the rule can achieve our goal but I already raised question and don't wanna make any more noise. I regard that you just declared the fairness of the tournament by mentioning the rule itself twice, and I leave it to you with credit.

It will be very grateful if you keep us informed of updates on how some advance and others be dropped out of the tournament.

Good luck to everybody!
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Schuyler



Joined: Aug 21, 2006
Posts: 54
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 3:30 pm    Post subject: Tournament Confusion Reply with quote

**CHECK YOUR PRIVATE MESSAGES!**

I dislike having to repeat information that has alreday been posted, but here it is:

A PLAYER ADVANCES TO THE SECOND ROUND WHEN, AND ONLY WHEN, THAT PLAYER EITHER WINS OR LOSES HIS FIRST ROUND GAME. AFTER LOSING A GAME, A PLAYER WILL ADVANCE TO A FUTURE ROUND IF, AND ONLY IF, HE WINS THE ROUND HE IS IN, OR HE RECEIVES A BYE ACCORDING TO THE RULES PREVIOUSLY STATED.

I can not make things any clearer than that. If a player does not understand how the tournament is fair, then he should consider dropping out so as not to detract from everyone else's fun.

Regarding tournament updates, to repeat myself again, I will be posting complete standings as each round is completed.

**CHECK YOUR PRIVATE MESSAGES!**

Schuyler
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