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Dealing with incomplete games

 
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kehmesis



Joined: Dec 24, 2016
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:32 pm    Post subject: Dealing with incomplete games Reply with quote

It's such a frustrating issue. A lot of players will just stop playing if their early game is difficult or if they've lost by round 7/8. I've had so many incomplete games where I had a really good shot at winning.

There are a lot of great solutions to this, but, unfortunately, they would likely require a big time investment in their implementations.

So my proposed solution is not perfect, but it would let us finish every game with likely little coding investment:

Automatic round pass. If a player hasn't played for X number of days (in a perfect world this could be set up at the start of the game if it's not too much trouble), they automatically pass (the actual "pass" option that all players have).

That wouldn't even kick players out of the games. They could still play the next round.

I don't know how the framework works, but it doesn't seem to be a very difficult process to check for the active player after X number of days and force an action on them. It's the same one that is done after 30 days (where a game is deleted), except that, instead of deleting the game, the active player passes.
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LordChambers



Joined: Feb 05, 2017
Posts: 89

PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That sounds like a fair suggestion.

I've been trying to get around this issue by only playing with people who have a good track record, which I define as twice as many completed games as active games. Unfortunately, 30% of players ignore my request in the game comment field, leading me to make it increasingly detailed.

First: (Please only players with 2x completed games as running)

To: (Please don't join this game if you have fewer completed games than 2x your current "running" games)

Now: (Click your name on the game manager screen. It shows two rows, completed games (top) and running games (bottom). If your running games count is greater than half your completed games count, please don't join this game)
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Fiann



Joined: Jun 13, 2017
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But if you only play with players that have mor completed than running games, a new player can never play! I think zhis is not the right solution.
I like the idea of a forced pass after lets say 10 days inactivity.
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Talaborn



Joined: Jun 14, 2017
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with kehmesis and Fiann. 10 days seams fine. Would be a good solution.
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kehmesis



Joined: Dec 24, 2016
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any number of days would work if it was hardcoded. 5, 7, 10.. As long as it doesn't delete our games.

But if it was a variable in the game setup, it'd be almost a perfect solution.
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AzrgExplorers



Joined: May 17, 2017
Posts: 41
Location: Calgary, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just so you all know, this has been discussed at length before:

http://www.mabiweb.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=630

MaBi stated there that any features to deal with abandoned games would be highly unlikely, and explained why. The "automatic pass" is one of the features discussed, and dismissed. I highly recommend reading that thread in its entirety.

In fact, I wonder if a "sticky" post pointing to the above thread would be a good idea, to discourage users from creating new threads on this exact topic, and making the exact same suggestions, every few months.
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LordChambers



Joined: Feb 05, 2017
Posts: 89

PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fiann wrote:
But if you only play with players that have mor completed than running games, a new player can never play!

True, in the game I've opened. But if a new player starts small with someone who doesn't care, they can complete games. And if they can abstain from joining 8 at a time before they've finished 16, they are welcome in my games.
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MaBi
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 01, 2006
Posts: 975
Location: Italy

PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:52 am    Post subject: Re: Dealing with incomplete games Reply with quote

kehmesis wrote:
Automatic round pass. If a player hasn't played for X number of days (in a perfect world this could be set up at the start of the game if it's not too much trouble), they automatically pass (the actual "pass" option that all players have).

This could work if the game is stuck in the Actions phase, but it could be in the Growth phase, or Events, War, Famine, where there is no 'Pass' option and somethng must be chosen. Any implementation must cover all the possible cases, and of course everything can be done but you see that things start getting complicated.

But leaving aside the details of any proposed solution, I still don't see any advantage in forcing a game to finish "somehow", do whatever you want as long as the game is finished. Here we have no "scoring", no ranking system, nothing to gain in "winning" a game, so once a player has abandoned a game, what's the difference between getting a win through auto-pass and letting the game expire and disappear? What have you gained with your "win"? If the reason is the little increase in your winning %, I will just remove the statistics page and take out this little incentive.
I get the frustration of an abandoned game, but once it's abandoned the damage is done and there is no way to recover it. All the solutions implemented at other sites are there to preserve the scoring and ranking, not the game, which is already lost anyway. (Yes, as AzrgExplorers pointed out, this has already been discussed before).

So, I won't implement anything to save the abandoned games, but I'm willing to consider some option to filter the joining players, something like what LordChambers tries to do. We could come up with some kind of requirement that could be set at game creation and then enforced. But it should be something simple, not a complex "karma system" or things like that. Maybe just a minimum number of completed games?
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Talaborn



Joined: Jun 14, 2017
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is not the winning %; just really frustrating it is, to think and plan some weeks and anything becomes sensless, only because one player loose the interest - usually the one who has anyhow no more influence on the outcoming of the game. For this could a forced pass at first sight be a nice solution.

But considering Mabis posting, I think he is right. There are the situations, where something is to decide without a pass-option; but further even the last player could buy a important card or do something else, what disturbs the other players. Forced to pass, the game is changed for the other players. They know for sure, that he will pass. That distorts the whole game. Its not much better than abandon the game.

In my experience, most of the leaving players are beginners with no finished games (or only some two-player Games). So it may be a idea, to integrate a requirement in the game creation.

One last thing: I think, Mabi is doing a great work here. If it is possible to implant a sticky point for such Posts (what azrgexplorer proposed) could help, not to bother him with repeated discussions of the same thing. It is enough work without this.
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kehmesis



Joined: Dec 24, 2016
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I might even not have missed the first one, just forgot.

Thanks for the explanation. Makes a lot of sense.

I think I'll just start more pwd protected games.
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